2019 State of Origin

Discussion in 'The Cesspit: Rugby League Discussion' started by Old Mate, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    No reasonable person could look at the current rules and say yeah I’m cool with forcing someone to play against a team they actually support, and for a team they feel compelled to support.

    Keary is a victim of these ludicrous rules. But if playing Origin at all is more important to him than playing Origin for Qld then yeah we don’t want him either. It’s a shame he’s been put in that position.
     
    Sultan Pepper and Cribbage like this.
  2. Sultan Pepper HG Emm

    Reading his wikipedia page he's definitely a Queenslander. Get him in there.
     
  3. Sultan Pepper HG Emm

  4. Boobidy BJ Gemmell

    It's insane he is being forced to rep NSW.
     
  5. Magic AJ Parker

    Is Cameron Smith the only Qld player you could say is the best player in his position in the game?

    You could probably make an argument for Munster.
     
  6. Cribbage RG Cribb

    The best halfback is a really open question too. It feels weird to say it's DCE or Morgan but it would also feel weird to say it was Cleary, Cronk19 or Pearce. And it's definitely not Johnson. I'd probably still pick Cronk in a game for my life but he's been far from amazing since leaving Melbourne.
     
  7. Alec AD Funkotron

    GOATes.
     
  8. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Pongs is the best fullback in the game. He just hasn’t had more than 10 minutes of footy there in 6 months.
     
  9. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    I’d be picking either Friend or Hunt at hooker for Qld. I’ve never liked McCullough.
     
    Paddy likes this.
  10. Boobidy BJ Gemmell

    1. Ponga
    2. Goates
    6. Munster
    9. Smith
     
  11. Magic AJ Parker

    Ponga is a bit of a stretch.

    Oates has gotta be for the lols.
     
  12. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Ponga isn't a stretch. He's better than Tedesco. I don't care how few games he's played there. He's the more complete fullback. He has no weakness in any part of his game.

    He demonstrated that last year in a pus team.
     
  13. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    And that’s coming from someone who actually thinks Tedesco’s passing game is hugely underrated. I say passing game and not ball playing because to me, the traditional sense, ball playing primarily concerns creating gaps between defenders. I don’t see him do a lot of that. He can but it’s pretty rare, touch for touch. But he has an under-appreciated cut-out and he’s quite good at exploiting numbers. I think he could do it a bit more as he’s still a little too eager on being tackled for my liking.

    Ponga is different. He has finesse. He has true ball playing ability that allows him to put players through even when they’re numbered up with double-pumps, holding up the defensive line, feigning long to play short, drawing in A defenders to create space and so on. And he does it pretty consistently. It’s obviously part of why he’s been shifted. In fact I think he’s better at it than even Lockyer or Hayne were.

    Matter of time/footy before it’s taken as read imo.
     
  14. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    This playing backrowers up front shit needs to stop. We're not going into Origin with fucking Jai Arrow at prop. Arrow is a superb player, in fact I think he should be a walk up start at lock, but enough with the mobility garbage. It is a secondary concern to metres, not a subset of it.

    I honestly don't even care that much who starts and who comes from the bench but our 4 best props are Scott, McGuire, Napa and Papalii. Arrow at lock. Based on metres and a ton of offloads, he has to start. Not Gillett, not McGuire, not Papalii.

    Fuck off with Glasby and Wallace. They're not up to it. Hess can fuck off too until he learns how to tackle.

    1.Ponga
    2.Oates
    3.Inglis (c)
    4.Chambers
    5.Gagai
    6.Munster
    7.DCE
    8.Scott
    9.Friend
    10.McGuire
    11.
    12.
    13.Arrow

    14.Morgan
    15.Papalii
    16.Napa
    17.

    That's what I'm looking at currently...

    We have a team capable of beating NSW this year. No doubt in my mind. We showed that in Game 2 and 3. We absolutely should've beaten them in Sydney last year.
     
  15. Magic AJ Parker

    I think you could argue he's the more complete attacking player but not the more complete fullback.

    I disagree that he has no weaknesses either, his performance in Origin playing in the middle of the field seems to have glossed over some of his real tackling deficiencies. He was at fault for some really soft tries last year.

    Tedesco is the better defender, kick defuser, ball returner & support player. Throw in his running game & ball playing & I think he's by far the more complete fullback when you look at every aspect you could ask of a fullback.

    I think it's hard to split their running games, Ponga has such incredible footwork and Tedesco crazy acceleration and strength & it goes without saying Ponga is clearly the more natural ball player he just oozes class.

    I thought Tedesco was the best player in Origin last year and I thought he was the best player in the NRL. His numbers last year were insane, 180m a game, 21 try asssists, 19 linebreaks, 20 linebreak assists, 133 tackle breaks. Ponga has never put in a season like that.

    Ponga has a higher ceiling? Yeh for sure.
    Ponga is the better player? I'll wait for him to prove it
     
  16. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Yeah I thought, and said at the time, Tedesco was the best player in Origin last year.

    And yes I’ll grant you that he’s the better fullback defensively. But everything he has over Ponga is imo, relatively marginal. I don’t think he’s quantitatively better than Ponga at any of them

    I’d actually say Tedesco’s running game is in fact better than Ponga’s, but again it’s extremely close.

    The one aspect where I do believe there is a huge difference, is in their ball playing ability. Again, I don’t see Tedesco as a genuine ball player really. Hence them moving Latrell and not him. And I think Ponga’s got a much better kicking game.

    In terms of stats, there are different ways you can read them. I mean we have to acknowledge that we’re talking about fullbacks here and just by virtue of the strength of their teams, 1st vs 11th, there’s a disparity in opportunity. Yeah he hasn’t put together a season denoting stats like that; he’s also never played behind such a strong side.

    I still think it’s amazing that Ponga was leading the comp for a fair bit in try assists and line break assists, playing fullback and in a bottom 8 side.
     
  17. Cribbage RG Cribb

    I don't think Ponga's really earned the title of 'best' yet - it's a title I'd attribute to performance rather than skill - but aside from that definition quibble I actually entirely agree with MF's assessment.

    A great little snippet in there about Tedesco's passing v ball-playing too: it's what made Brett Stewart for example perfectly at home in the modern fullback role despite not actually have great vision or a ball-players instinct in a way that cunts like Dugan, Minichiello etc couldn't actually cut it. Ball-playing is a nice to have for a fullback but it's not a pre-requisite.. a crisp passing game and the timing in attack to run onto the ball in such a way as to leave a long pass viable on the other hand are absolute musts now. Stewart wasn't a real ball player but he threw a nice pass and ran the sweep plays well enough to leave it open. He wasn't creating gaps for players but he could take advantage of an overlap, and I think Tedesco is similar. Both racked up lots of try assists in good teams even when they weren't really pure ball players' setups.

    I'll offer up RTS too. I struggle to actually split him from Tedesco as it is (RTS is the best defensive fullback now for mine, and he's got Tedesco covered for footwork too, but I think his passing and ball-playing is a small step down from Teddy's, and Tedesco is still the best support fullback). I think Ponga will be better than both but they've both proven their ability to a more definite standard already.
     
  18. Magic AJ Parker

    Haha yeh I was gonna say RTS & Teddy would be the 2 best fullbacks in the game for mine but I know how little MF used to rate RTS's defence at fullback it wasn't a path I really wanted to go down.
     
  19. Magic AJ Parker

    Looks like NSW could have a new right edge combo with Roberts getting back on the turps and Tommy T's injury.

    I think we could do better than Roberts & Turbo but we could definitely fuck it up and do a lot worse too.

    I'd be happy to see;

    4) Bird/Ramien
    5) Ferguson

    I'm sure they'd probably find a spot for Dugan, they always seem to find a spot for Dugan. I wouldn't even be mad if they picked Aitken.
     
  20. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    When was that?
     

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