2018 State of Origin

Discussion in 'The Cesspit: Rugby League Discussion' started by Old Mate, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Interesting question. Would you pick him if he was a NSWmen?
     
  2. Cribbage RG Cribb

    Tough one given it's not exactly a problem position for us, but yeah I probably would as long as he continued to play the way he has so far. I'd usually want a much longer period of performance before I'd pick someone, but there's the type of "playing well" the commentators talk about when someone is just really effective in their limited role (Aitken springs to mind here), and there's the "playing well" Ponga has done in which he's demonstrated a very high level of all round skill rather than just form or circumstance.
     
  3. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Mmhmm. It’s not that common to see fullbacks, especially young ones, who can play long with cutout passes and sum up 3-on-2’s consistently; there’s a few...Moylan, Trbojevic, Boyd, etc. Most of the no1’s these days are almost entirely known as breakaway ball runners - Thompson, Dufty, Holmes, Dugan, RTS etc. But it’s really uncommon to see a fullback who can play short as well as Ponga does.

    So he can play long which means he has great vision. And he can play short which indicates he knows how to commit defenders and can manipulate holes and spaces. I don’t know how he can do that whilst still being remarkably elusive and hard to tackle. So yeah as you said, a very high level of all round skill. If he develops a quality kicking game we may have another Lockyer on our hands.

    Actually he’s a little bit Lockyer and a little bit Matty Bowen to my eye.
     
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  4. Wilson SB Wilson

    He's an extremely rich mans version of RTS
     
  5. Boobidy BJ Gemmell

    Ponga can have this year without any rep footy, and he will take over from Slater next year. If we pick him on the bench, he could come on at 7 and move Morgan/Hunt into the forwards.
     
  6. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Word is Boyd will almost certainly be picked outside GI.
     
  7. Boobidy BJ Gemmell

    I don't really have an issue with it. He has done the job in the past, and it's not really a tough assignment. Should be Goates though.
     
  8. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    It can be an extremely tough assignment. Depends how often he’s challenged. He got found out badly in 2015 when he wasn’t fully fit.
     
  9. Cribbage RG Cribb

    I really like Boyd as a player (it was only this time last year I wrongly suggested he might be a better fullback than Slater), but it's terminal decline IMO; he's done. I wouldn't pick him - I'd probably sooner drop him from the Broncos side than pick him for Queensland - especially given Queensland have two other really good options for that spot.
     
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  10. Boobidy BJ Gemmell

    Cribb, from the facebook chat you'd know how critical I am of Boyd, and my thoughts on him. I don't see him being a liability, even though he would be my 4th choice for that wing spot.
     
  11. jazman84 JM Eightyfour

    WTF? Why?
     
  12. Cribbage RG Cribb

    Even though I think it's a bad call I kind of envy it. I wish NSW would err on the side of proven incumbency a bit more often.
     
  13. Lukic L Popovic

    I think we should always pick on form. End of the day it's the same sport. It's just when picking on form, make sure that you're picking someone who can do the same job they do at club level - put them in the same spot they've actually gotten in form in.

    If the two form centres and wingers are right sided, don't pick them for the left. If the structure is forward dominant and doesn't rely on the backs to make metres, don't go picking backs that are error prone but can make good yardage.

    I think picking someone who's performed in the past is a fallacy, unless you know that they're a better fit for what you're planning to do.
     
  14. Wilson SB Wilson

    Don't like all the chitter chatter about picking essentially the whole Dragons pack.
     
  15. Boobidy BJ Gemmell

    Pearce.
    Nate Myles disagrees.
    You should definitely be picking Vaghaun and Frizzler. Sims and De Belin probably deserve a place too.
     
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  16. Cribbage RG Cribb

    "Form" is just such a small sample size that's ignoring so many variables though. I more or less believe in picking starting front rowers on form, but every other position is in some way relying on others to look effective. If a player has performed well in the past it shows they're up to standard -- sometimes their short-term club performances indicate they've declined or improved, but sometimes they just indicate cyclical, structural or team confidence factors.

    It's the job of a selector to sort the Pongas out from the Aitkens. Relying too much or too little on form just shows a selector up for not really being able to read the game as a spectator (or sadly in some cases just not being bothered to do so).

    I'd agree with picking on form if it could be agreed that a star half in a team finishing 16th could actually be in great form. I've never seen someone actually say this though, which makes me very sceptical when a coach says he's picking on form. It usually just means he's picking on media hype and/or which team a cunt plays for.
     
  17. Cribbage RG Cribb

    Actually I'm more or less fine with this, thinking about who the Dragons pack actually is, as long as Sims is benched and it's Jackson he replaces. Frizell, Vaughan and de Belin are gun, Graham is a pom and Sims offers something different off the bench if they want it in that third running forward spot.
     
  18. AVA T Delonge

    Yeah I've got no issues with the Dragons pack, it could be much much worse.
     
  19. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    There are literally dozens of examples proving it is wise to ignore form and pick on proven ability a great deal of the time. Origin is a huge step up in every way.

    It may not seem like it because you’re a Blue. But just look at QLD. Virtually every stalwart we had was in shit form at some point and got shown significant faith, and went on to do the job. Tate wasn’t in the top 5 club centres yet one of the best Origin three-quarters in the last 15 years. Thurston started some years in diabolical form and we know what he did in Origin. Myles, Gagai, Inglis, Civoniceva, I mean all of them...

    That being said there are limitations. Myles should not have been shown loyalty last year. He was cooked. It’s a case by case basis but saying proven ability is a fallacy is just flat out wrong imo.
     
  20. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    lol seriously what is the fucking go with the de Belin hype? Every cunt bar me and my gold fish is hyping him. I don’t get it.
     

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