Paul Scholes - the most overrated underrated player in history?

Discussion in 'Association Football Discussion' started by Eds, Dec 18, 2012.

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  1. Eds E Ames

    I find the subject of midfielders in the Paul Scholes/Xabi Alonso vein quite fascinating. For years the defensive midfielder or deep-lying playmaker was the 'behind the scenes' man, but since the emergence of the Makelele role and Xavi/Iniesta, we've come to appreciate these players much more.

    This thread is inspired by Verigoat's selection of Paul Scholes in his top three United players he's seen play. Which I find quite ridiculous, personally. I think we've got to the stage where we're overcompensating for our previous underrating of this type of player. When Scholes has come on in a game where United have been struggling, and they then take the lead - it was because Scholes came on and controlled the game, not because they just adopted a three-man central midfield. I feel he [and other players who are of a similar mould] are often now overcredited.

    So, Paul Scholes - overrated?
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
    Eds, Dec 18, 2012
    #1

  2. mouse MJ Edwards

    Nahh, not overrated in my opinion

    Best CM to have played in the Premiership, where he set the standard of midfielders scoring 20 goals a season. Then has shown the skill level to then adapt his game when age has become a factor.

    Only thing that does piss me off is the media wankfest over his lack of ability to tackle.

    Edit - However, I do believe you are onto something where DM's are becoming over credited. I mean as a Liverpool fan, I do believe we overrate Lucas' role for the club, even though he does do a very good job.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
    mouse, Dec 18, 2012
    #2

  3. Eds E Ames

    He's actually only ever scored >10 league goals in a season once, with 14.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
    Eds, Dec 18, 2012
    #3

  4. mouse MJ Edwards

    Really?

    Surely he scored 20 goals a season if you count all competitions before?

    I'm really surprised by that fact, doesn't changed my opinion on him being the best CM to have played in the Premiership, but slightly shocked to be honest.
     
    mouse, Dec 18, 2012
    #4

  5. PienaarColada DH Mulray

    Unbelievable footballer.

    I remember in the 3-3 at Goodison the other year, his ball to Berbatov. Outrageous. And that was when he was "on the way out".
     
    PienaarColada, Dec 18, 2012
    #5

  6. Frizzed WC Welker

    Interesting, I think we underrate it.
     
    Frizzed, Dec 18, 2012
    #6

  7. Cevno IV Narang

    Indeed, he was a Goalscoring AM like Lampard/Gerrard but in a midfield 2 initally and then has adapted his game later on to become a deep lying playmaker. Something which either of the above are struggling to do.

    Actually, think he is rated even higher outside England in Europe then he is in England. There was a compilation of quotes about him from various top managers and footballers doing the rounds when he retired iirc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
    Cevno, Dec 18, 2012
    #7

  8. Eds E Ames

    Yeah, he got 20 goals in a season once, but that was in 52 games. Second best is 14 goals (all competitions).

    In comparison, Gerrard's best are 24 & 23, and Lampard's are 27 & 21.
     
    Eds, Dec 18, 2012
    #8

  9. Cevno IV Narang

    He has scored 13/14 goals on average per season (all competitions) when he was playing that role, but he could easily have had more if he didn't play in a midfield 2.

    Believe that above 10 goal season also came when he played in the Lampard role (3 man AM/SS) behind Van Nistelrooy for one season. Veron had to leave after that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
    Cevno, Dec 18, 2012
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  10. mouse MJ Edwards

    I might sound a bit clueless in this post but I'd say we miss him because we don't have anyone good enough in that position (Spearing for example last year), so we underrate him because of this but overrate his ability because I wouldn't say he's as good as what we make out

    Don't get me wrong, I love the guy
     
    mouse, Dec 18, 2012
    #10

  11. SM MD Dorn

    Underrated players are being overrated. Balances itself out
     
    SM, Dec 18, 2012
    #11

  12. Teacups CJ Evans

    First things first. Why do you find it "ridiculous"? Seems a slight exaggeration. It's not like it was Djemba-Djemba being placed in a top 3 someone's ever seen.

    Yeah, this is true. The truth is, he's not even half the player he used to be. Admittedly, I don't watch as much football as I used to when I was younger. The luxury back then of a Scholes-Keane duo was always comforting because there was so much reliability and consistency that came with that. And you realise the importance of something like that more especially when you look at present day. How you took something like that for granted. Scholes had the ability, back then, to almost single handedly dictate the game tempo. He had the ability to see things before they happened. He knew the exact weight to assign to a pass, the exact direction to send it in, the precise moment to play the ball. He was an artist. He's not that same player today - he doesn't have the ability to single-handedly change the game - so I agree in that respect. All that is down to many United fans desperately trying to cling on to a truly amazing memory of a phenomenal player.

    Any player can be overrated. It just gets harder to do so as their level of ability increases. So, overrated? Maybe. Take nothing away from his ability though - easily one of the top 3 for me. Maybe I've failed to answer the question but I'm surprised that you personally found it ridiculous that Veri included him in his post - so this was mainly to address that.
     
    Teacups, Dec 18, 2012
    #12

  13. Sultan Pepper HG Emm

    You can not over rate a professional red headed sportsman imo.
     
    Sultan Pepper, Dec 18, 2012
    #13

  14. Cevno IV Narang

    I think most United fans realize that both him and Giggs are clearly past it, and many have criticized Sir Alex for playing them in big games.

    Yeah, right now he's past it playing the deeper role, but about 4/5 years ago alongside Carrick he was awesome when he came back from his eye injury and reinvented his game.
     
    Cevno, Dec 18, 2012
    #14

  15. Eds E Ames

    Good post.

    I wasn't ridiculing Veri's choice, btw. I was simply saying from my point of view, I rate so many other [United] players over him that it seems ridiculous to me, to pick him. However, I can also see how he was picked by a United fan. For example, you mention Roy Keane who I rate much more highly. Then there's also Ronaldo, Rooney, Cantona, van Nistelrooy, Vidic, Schmeichel, Giggs etc. who I'd also probably rate above him.

    And, in all honesty, we tend to exaggerate the differences between the top players anyway, hence my hyperbole with "ridiculous". In reality the difference between a Gerrard at his peak and a Scholes at his peak is negligible anyway. But we love to make out that there's a difference (whichever way that may be).
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
    Eds, Dec 18, 2012
    #15

  16. Teacups CJ Evans

    Ah okay, I see what you mean. Last bit is very true.

    Of course, everyone's opinions are bound to be different - I just misunderstood you. Interested to see who other United fans will include in their top 3.
     
    Teacups, Dec 18, 2012
    #16

  17. hedger OX Gbagbo

    He's an excellent player, for mine.
     
    hedger, Dec 18, 2012
    #17

  18. Himannv LV Himann

    I reckon he's one of the best midfielders we've ever had if not the best.
     
    Himannv, Dec 18, 2012
    #18

  19. Slyza N Hunt

    The bias in this thread is atrocious
     
    Slyza, Dec 18, 2012
    #19

  20. Verigoat S Verigotta

    There isn't a single Liverpool fan who come close to underrting Lucas

    When I originally saw the question, I took it as the best players we've seen live. But my answer stays the same even if it wasn't limite to that. Did he have the same sort of massive ability as people like cantina or vidic or any huge namers. Probably not.

    But when he's on his game, where he's constantly on a pivot, finding the space, hitting every pass, he's one of the best things iv ever seen on the pitch.

    It's sort of the same type of thing as berbs, when he's having a good game, there's very few strikers around who are better to watch play even if others are more likely to score
     
    Verigoat, Dec 18, 2012
    #20
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