English Football 11/12

Discussion in 'Association Football Discussion' started by Eds, Jun 14, 2011.

Page 753 of 756

  1. SM MD Dorn

    This tbh :troll:
     
    SM, Jun 1, 2012
    #15041

  2. BigGuns DA Astele

    AWTA.
     
    BigGuns, Jun 1, 2012
    #15042

  3. SuperNova SJ Nova

    AWTA
     
    SuperNova, Jun 1, 2012
    #15043

  4. SM MD Dorn

    Martinez got heaps of praise for a fluke arse run into the end of season. He's a pretty dire manager
     
    SM, Jun 1, 2012
    #15044

  5. Baxter MJ Deane

    Who laid the foundations for everything that has happened at Swansea.
    He's a good manager, just at a club with a not very good team.
     
    Baxter, Jun 1, 2012
    #15045

  6. SuperNova SJ Nova

    I don't really understand this Martinez laid the foundations, yes he brought in some players while Swansea where in the Championship which to a point helped them get promotion.

    But if you look at their starting XI for the season just gone, 7 of the players were brought in by Rodgers, I wouldn't really say Martinez had a big impact on that.

    Think Martinez will be a good manager for a mid to lower mid table team though, just think he gets a little too much credit at times for what Swansea have done.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    SuperNova, Jun 1, 2012
    #15046

  7. Riddy JH Ridd

    he started the whole philosophy though... rodgers didnt come in and say right this how were gonna play and it completely changed from day 1. i could be wrong about this, but Reading didnt play the way swansea play now when they had rodgers in charge... logan to c' or d'.

    id 100% agree with the statement that martinez laid the foundations.
     
    Riddy, Jun 1, 2012
    #15047

  8. SuperNova SJ Nova

    So we can expect Rodgers to have the same philosophy as Dalglish next season then as he won't come in and say this is how I want the team to play next season? Philosophy's change from coach to coach, it's not restricted to what the previous coach did.

    Martinez got Swansea to a certain point, yes, but Rodgers not only put them over the bump, but made a good team that was mid table in the Prem. This isn't down to Martinez.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    SuperNova, Jun 1, 2012
    #15048

  9. Riddy JH Ridd

    what? no? swansea were doing well under martinez iirc. playing nice football etc, and rodgers has kept up the same mentality that martinez started.

    fs laying down the foundations doesnt equal getting them in the prem :facepalm:
     
    Riddy, Jun 1, 2012
    #15049

  10. SuperNova SJ Nova

    Martinez getting far too much credit, Swansea were very average under Sousa, yet Martinez is going to get credit for it still? Could it not be down to Rodgers changing something after Sousa got fired?

    Martinez got them to a point, Sousa couldn't repeat that, Rodgers took them steps further. To me, with mostly new players coming in, I can't see how much influence Martinez has then had.

    I guess we better get use to boring football then next season, Dalglish has laid the foundations, Rodgers has to keep them going. Long balls to Suarez next season, OLE!
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    SuperNova, Jun 1, 2012
    #15050

  11. Riddy JH Ridd

    im not taking anything away from rodgers. yes hes done brilliantly to get them in the prem and a mid table finish (dont forget 'Eck got us to 9th in our first season back in the prem 3 years back, and hes a dire manager), but you cant simply rule out martinez's influence.

    and the second paragraph is childish and i thought you were above that tbh.
     
    Riddy, Jun 1, 2012
    #15051

  12. SuperNova SJ Nova

    I not ruling it out, I said Martinez got them to a point, but Rodgers has taken them above and beyond that, and their current PL squad is mostly Rodgers signings, the Martinez influence isn't nearly as big as people have been claiming in the media etc.

    What? I'm just putting a Liverpool spin on what you've been saying :whip:
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    SuperNova, Jun 1, 2012
    #15052

  13. Riddy JH Ridd

    getting them to a point = laying the foundations though surely?!?!

    and not once have i said rodgers will continue dalgishs 'tactics' either.
     
    Riddy, Jun 1, 2012
    #15053

  14. SuperNova SJ Nova

    Maybe we have different definitions of foundations then. Martinez put some foundations down, but to me, Rodgers has come in and put some of his own down and improved on them in general.

    I don't think Martinez didn't do anything, I just don't think he did as much as I've seen people proclaim in various places that I've been reading.

    I worded my initial post wrong, meant to say he did lay some, but I disagreed with Marcus who said Martinez put the foundations down for everything that has happened to Swansea.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    SuperNova, Jun 1, 2012
    #15054

  15. Cevno IV Narang

    Martinez laid the foundations in terms of staff/structure and players etc.. and made a long term plan for Swansea with the type of football they play too.

    When he left, they brought in Sousa who failed to carry on with that and tried to change many things before bailing for Leicester.

    After which Rodgers came in and built on what Martinez had left and was succesful. Obv Rodgers deserves credit for it, but it's not like he was solely responsible for the philosophy there as the building blocks had been already laid by Martinez before.


    It's a tough choice between the 2 and a hard one at that right now.
     
    Cevno, Jun 1, 2012
    #15055

  16. Riddy JH Ridd

    my swansea fc history is the best, im pretty sure martinez got them at least 1 promotion? anf they did well in the first season in the championship cahmpionship under him the sousa came in and struggled a bit?

    but yeah, all im saying is did well at swansea put them in a half decent position, and then rodgers has come and strengthened in the areas and pushed them on further.

    would be interesting to see how far martinez could have taken them.
     
    Riddy, Jun 1, 2012
    #15056

  17. mouse MJ Edwards

    It was pointless moving back to 5...

    Clubs don't have to fill the sub bench anyway
     
    mouse, Jun 1, 2012
    #15057

  18. Baxter MJ Deane

    I said no such thing. It's just people who criticise Martinez and pretend Rogers is the second coming of Jesus that annoy me.
    Martinez was in charge at the very beginning of Swansea's route to where they are now. He improved them substantially before leaving for Wigan, was responsible for them beginning to play the football they're known for today. Sousa wasn't capable of continuing that which is where Rogers enters the frame.
    Without doubt Rogers took Swansea to a level they'd never reached before and expanded upon the pre-existing philosophy (the use of De Vries and Vorm anyone?) but it would've without doubt been much harder and taken much longer for Rogers if it had not been for the work of Martinez.
    Meanwhile, as this is going on Martinez is at the helm of a struggling Wigan side who have a poor squad.
    Yet because one manager is capitalising (see: taking advantage/making the most of) on the work of another and building upon it while another attempts to re-establish a side and take on a rather poor squad, one is portrayed as a genius and the other a poor manager.
    I'm sorry, but that's not true.
    Rogers couldn't have done what he managed with Swansea if it weren't for Martinez. I do believe that, in terms of timescale etc.
    Thought it is to Roger's credit he did manage to do it in the manner he did and that he improved Swansea's squad just quite so hugely.
    Something that Martinez is seemingly attempting to do afresh with Wigan.
     
    Baxter, Jun 1, 2012
    #15058

  19. Cevno IV Narang

    This.
     
    Cevno, Jun 1, 2012
    #15059

  20. mouse MJ Edwards

    *Rodgers
     
    mouse, Jun 1, 2012
    #15060
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