"The Sack Race X2"

Discussion in 'Association Football Discussion' started by mouse, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. Uppercut CB Faldo

    Basically the right-wing press really hate AVB, so stories that make him sound like a dick are less likely to be true than with other managers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2013
  2. cpr CP Raftery

    Well we have a winnner, Goodbye to Jol
     
  3. Furball G Furball

    Next up in Furball's Predictions: Sun to rise in East; set in West.
     
  4. 99* JJ Ritchie

    Clarke gone.
     
  5. mouse MJ Edwards

    Retarded decision
     
  6. Eds E Ames

    Like Clarke but seems like a fairly reasonable decision to me.
     
  7. GIMH GIMH Martyn

    No it's not.
     
  8. Riddy JH Ridd

    thats just stupid.
     
  9. Lukic L Popovic

    Yeh poor sacking.

    Had a great season last year, had a few poor games this year but realistically, what do they expect? The top 9 teams have rosters that are pretty clearly superior to the rest so at only 4 points behind 10th, it's not as though he's doing terribly and take into account the work of last season it's shocking.
     
  10. GIMH GIMH Martyn

    It's the modern way. And it's poor.
     
  11. Uppercut CB Faldo

    You think so?

    It might just be a stupid, Venkys-style decision, we'll see when we know the replacement. But I never really liked the idea that the only legitimate reason to let a manager go is that the team has dropped below a predetermined level of shitness. It depends on all kinds of things but the most important one is the standard of replacement. I like the idea of giving Moyes a bit of time to learn the job, but I still think that if Klopp came available we should show Moyes the door tomorrow even if he'd won his last five games.
     
  12. Lukic L Popovic

    I don't see it though.

    If the team is significantly underachieving when they're in a position to definitely be making Europe/Competing or is likely to be relegated when they should be far from it, then it's understandable.

    WBA's been unlucky at times this year and Clarke did a good job last year. If he did poorly this year, had the club in the relegation zone and playing awful football, I'd understand. But you're never going to get anywhere starting over with a new manager again and again as mid-table teams often do.

    Hire someone with a vision for the long-term. Try and make runs at the cup, ensure survival and try and retain your best young talents and make 1 or 2 big signings. Obviously it's easier said than done, but when you're bringing in a new coach every 2-3 years or trying to change things up, you're just bringing in a manager with a new system who needs new staff and players and puts you back at square one.
     
  13. GIMH GIMH Martyn

    Yeah there is some merit in that, looking at Southampton as a good example.

    But in general, clubs panic too quickly. Stability is overlooked. Makes everything higher pressure than it maybe should be and can often result in quick fixes being favoured over building a team. And I've always thought West Brom were a good example of a club who played the long term game very well, so this surprised me.

    Putting Clarke on gardening leave seems a little spiteful too, on first glance.
     
  14. GIMH GIMH Martyn

    God, must be a cold day in hell, I 100% agree with Lukic
     
  15. mouse MJ Edwards

    Rumours that Jol is the favourite to take over. I'm not sure how wise that'll be when he looked so beaten from his last few games at Fulham
     
  16. Furball G Furball

    The thing with West Brom this season is that they seem to be doing a lot better than they actually are.
     
  17. Uppercut CB Faldo

    I do sort of agree with all of this. You're spot on about the need for stability and long-term planning.

    There's a bit of context that you're missing though. There's a wave of thinking in football lately stating that achieving stability by keeping the same manager in place is a pipe dream. If he does badly, the fans, media and possibly players turn against him, the entire club descends into a mess of negativity and his position becomes untenable. If he does well, he leaves for a bigger club. I mean, we talk about impatience, but managers in England get more time than they do anywhere else in the world. It just seems to be a fact of football that clubs regularly change their manager.

    That's why clubs appoint a 'director of football' to provide long-term planning and direction to the club. He buys and sells players, runs the academy, appoints the coaching staff, and so on. The manager just picks the first team and deals with the media. So when he leaves for a better job or the media hound him out, you don't need an overhaul. Lyon really kicked the movement off by winning Ligue 1 for seven years in a row with four different managers.

    A lot of European clubs are now run the same way, and it's spreading to England too. West Brom are one of its big success stories (although they lost their director of football to the FA this summer). If it was another club I'd probably agree that it's totally knee-jerk and unnecessary, but for West Brom it's not an especially radical move and will barely affect the stability of the club at all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  18. Uppercut CB Faldo

    This is true too. The West Brom fans, in contrast to everyone else, don't seem to be surprised at all. They've actually won two less games in 2013 than Jol did.
     
  19. Lukic L Popovic

    You're understating the status of the manager imo, they do and influence a lot more than that and Lyon's success had a lot to do with the quality of their squad and the lack of quality competition during those years in ligue 1.
     
  20. Furball G Furball

    The quality of Lyon's squad had more to do with Guy Lacombe, Lyon's sporting director.
     

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