The re-birth of the traditional five eighth?

Discussion in 'The Cesspit: Rugby League Discussion' started by Ged, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. Ged GEC King

    I seem to recall about 4 yrs ago when almost every team had a centre or lock at five eighth (think Timmins, Inglis, Justin Smith, Bird, Lyon, even Gasnier for a bit). There was almost a fear that the role of the five eighth was dead. I even seem to recall posting a thread on either here or Rleague suggesting that the five eighth should defend up the middle and the hooker on the edge as the hooker was the far more creative position at that time.

    Now look at things and pretty much every team in the comp has a creative ball player at five eighth, and most of these blokes are out and out five eighths, as opposed to just halfbacks playing left and right.

    The big question is, why has this occurred? One theory I've been tossing up is that the fullbacks coming through just simply weren't as good ball players. Aside from Hayne and Bowen, not many fullbacks are great ball players these days.

    My other theory is that the hookers coming through aren't as good and as such creativity is now needed in the five eighth. I think that this theory probably has more merit given that there really has been a bit of a drain of top level hookers of late without many coming in to fill the breach.

    My third and final theory is that clubs just copy the top teams. Just as we saw a lot of centres and locks at five eighth around the time of Melbourne v. Manly gf's in 07 and 08, we are now seeing teams copy the set up of teams such as the last two grand final winners, St.George and Melbourne.

    Of course, I'm really coming to the conclusion that it's a combination of all three.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It's such a drastic change in such a short period in my opinion.
     
  2. Andato BJT Manera

    It seems that players are getting thrown into the halves pairing a lot younger these days so they are gaining better experience. To be honest it appears the average ager for a position is getting lower across the board. Basically if you are a prop now and you are not making the 20-30 tackles and 100m you are forgotten.

    With the Under 20's now in play, and getting decent coverage, greater expectations are placed on the younger generations which will hopefully pay dividends down the track. Players are forced to lead from the front if they want to get picked and they will be inclined to think that being creative will grab most attention from the boys upstairs.
     
  3. Wilson SB Wilson

    My theory is you're reading way to much into it.
     
  4. Fan09 ND Short

    Mainly be attributed to a lot more teams deciding to play a L/R style of game with just a halve on either side.
     
  5. Cribbage RG Cribb

    Those are all probably factors - I'm not going to disagree with any of that - but I'll add another two you neglected to mention that are IMO two are biggest reasons for it.

    Firstly, you mentioned declining hooking standards, but I'll add halfbacks to that too. We've seen quite a few good hookers and dominant halfbacks decline/retire/go overseas lately, which has meant that teams can't carry a defence or running orientated ball-shoveller at five-eighth.

    I think the biggest factor has been the rule changes, though. It all stems back to Wests winning the 2005 Premiership based on quick play-the-ball tactics - their pack was average up front in attack so they made a lot of their ground and gained a lot of their momentum from nippy outside backs scooting out of dummy half, diving at the feet of the opposition and playing the ball really quickly to get a role on before Farah, Prince and Marshall took over. This created a chain reaction, firstly in the laws of the game - the NRL introduced things like the surrender tackle, the dominant tackle and the 'short ten' (measured from where the tackle was made rather than where the ball was played) to counteract this tactic that many traditionalists believed was spoiling the role of the forwards. It also led to Melbourne's wrestle tactics.. as you say, teams copy success so many teams tried that same Tigers tactic over the next few years only to be nullified by Melbourne's deliberate slow-down tactics in defence - tactics which were specifically designed to counter that style of play.

    What I'm getting at is that the speed of the ruck has been progressively slowed since 2005, so creative plays around the middle of the ruck on the back of quick play-the-balls are not nearly as effective these days. Teams are required to get the ball two passes wide to find time and space again so the creative five-eighths have come into their own, and we're seeing hookers turn more into what they were several years ago. Smith wannabes like McCullough and Luke and being outplayed by fast distributors like Buttriss, and the likes of Carney, Soward, Marshall etc are really coming to the fore on the edges. We're also seeing teams with good packs start to get on top again, and the focus is shifting away from organisation and momentum, back towards skill and power. I think it's good for the game tbh.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  6. Sultan Pepper HG Emm

    Bring Back 5/8ths of Menzies, Carroll and Timmins tbh.



    Ridiculous to think Gasnier was once 5/8th for NSW.
     
  7. Henry Marshall H Marshall

    Kieran Foran is leading the charge for the traditional 5/8's. Carn the Foran!
     
  8. jazman84 JM Eightyfour

    The Hooker and Lock now handle the lion's share in defence, therefore sides can get away with having a smaller skills based 5/8 like Soward, Carney, Thurston etc. Not many sides these days have a 9 and 13 who don't make at least 30 tackles each. Sharks and Broncos are fortunate enough to have 13's who will top the hitups and the tackles. Then you have blokes like Tolman who does the same thing from Prop.

    So fast distribution is the order of the day, not engagement of markers? I figured the Marker engagement would become more important with the adjustment of the marker rules.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  9. Lukic L Popovic

    Posts look different.
     
  10. Alec AD Funkotron

    Agreed.
     
  11. Boobidy BJ Gemmell

    Respect.
     

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