New Sim (v2)

Discussion in 'Archive of Seasons Past' started by HeathDavisSpeed, Apr 13, 2011.

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  1. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    Started a new thread as we've moved on since the last one.

    Basically, need a few hints now as to how best to proceed.

    Any pointers would be good:

    1. Which players are most likely to be needed at the line-out? My thoughts are Hooker, the Locks and the Back Row... Possibly the half back for post-lineout distribution.
    2. Which players are most likely to be involved in a Ruck? Would they be the same on the attack as they are on defence?
    3. Which players are most likely to be involved in a Maul?

    I've got the sim working out Attack & Defence ratings for each team for Scrums, but now need to work out the other set pieces.

    EDIT:

    Also, I've dumped the need for tactical kicking on the sign ups, and the Special Traits will be ignored for S3, but may come in later.

    Also, what skills are more useful in these set pieces? The skills available are Stamina, Handling, Kick Catching, Passing, Jumping, Speed, Side Step, Strength, Technique, Crash Ball, Wide Attack, Tight Defence, Wide Defence, Rucking, Mauling, Tactical Kicking...

    Some ideas...

    SCRUM

    2 x Technique
    2 x Strength
    1 x Stamina
    0.5 x Passing (half back only)

    LINE OUT

    2 x Jumping
    1 x Handling
    1 x Strength
    1 x Stamina
    1 x Technique
    0.5 x Passing (Hooker & half back only)

    MAUL

    3 x Mauling
    2 x Strength
    2 x Stamina
    1 x Technique
    1 x Tight Defence
    0.5 x Handling

    RUCK

    3 x Rucking
    2 x Strength
    2 x Stamina
    1 x Technique
    1 x Tight Defence
    0.5 x Handling
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
    HeathDavisSpeed, Apr 13, 2011
    #1

  2. Jabba HJ Bots

    pretty sure fowards in rugby play a 4 4 split so 4 on right 4 on left for attack. a good person to get hold of is darts he plays backrow at a pretty good age grade level. made the trail side for u16 canterbury. ill try and get him online
     
    Jabba, Apr 13, 2011
    #2

  3. Mousey AJ Son

    In answer to these:

    1. Which players are most likely to be needed at the line-out? My thoughts are Hooker, the Locks and the Back Row... Possibly the half back for post-lineout distribution.
    It depends on how detailed you want to get. If you want to go simple, you'd have a throwing stat for the hooker, and a catching stat for the locks, but then you could have a lifting stat for props. Even then, you'd probably have to have a thorwing, catching and lifting stat for all forwards, as they chop and change depending. I'm not sure with professional union, but we had a flanker who was a gun lifter, so we used him, and I used to play a flankers or 8s role at the back sometimes even though I was playing prop or lock.
    I don't think you'd need a seperate stat for the halfback though. It's essentially the same thing as setting up from a ruck on a wing.

    2. Which players are most likely to be involved in a Ruck? Would they be the same on the attack as they are on defence?
    Again, it depends on detail, as you could have ability to drive, secure, pillar and post etc. Players most likely involed, props and locks, your flankers and 8s too, but not to the same extent.

    3. Which players are most likely to be involved in a Maul?
    This I'm not sure about, the majority of our mauls were from lineouts and I'm not sure if thats what happens professionally, so props and locks, as well as the other forwards I guess.

    I played for three years, mainly as a forward, so I know a little bit, but I only played schoolboy and haven't played for two years. I don't really watch union either, aside from internationals on TV.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
    Mousey, Apr 13, 2011
    #3

  4. Escath LE Schaw

    I think it's also important to note that if a player is tackled on a huge linebreak that got them many metres, the ruck will involve whoever can get to it in time. Usually it's the backs who could keep up with the player and the ball is more easily turned over in these situations.
     
    Escath, Apr 13, 2011
    #4

  5. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    Yeah, trying to keep it simple for now and see if I can get a reasonable approximation out before adding detail, hence I asked who's more likely to get involved. The outcome of a line break will be a different play, so that's covered, but just for the "standard" line-out, ruck and maul plays - given that the skills I mentioned are the ones that are in the design... But good, keep it coming!
     
    HeathDavisSpeed, Apr 13, 2011
    #5

  6. Athlai JJD Heads

    Hookers throw, props lift, locks catch. Loose forwards catch and lift to a lesser extent.

    No need to make it too complicated.
     
    Athlai, Apr 13, 2011
    #6

  7. Doog J McDougal

    Also, props in lineouts as a short option.

    If possible I would split the lineout into phases.

    Throw. Entirely reliant on hookers handling. A perfect throw there would be a very small chance of contesting (ie. 5%), an average throw there would maybe be a 20% chance of contesting, a poor throw about 50%, and not straight resulting in a scrum.

    Catch. Reliant on competition between receivers, and quality of prior throw. Important receivers skills: Jumping, Strength of Lifters, Technique of lifters. Potentially have a small added speed boost in here as well, many teams fake a jump before quickly switching to the intended target. If there is leadership in this sim, it could also affect the lineout, as clear leadership in this area will lead to coordination, but this is probably too far.

    Response. Whether the receiver can hold on to the throw. (Reliant upon handling and throw quality from above) How the receiver will choose to play the ball off the lineout, whether they pass it back to the scrummie or try and maul it. Initiating factors from mauls/passing stats can be used to set these plays up once it has been decided which occurs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
    Doog, Apr 13, 2011
    #7

  8. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    SCRUM CALCULATION

    Available skills:
    Stamina, Handling, Kick Catching, Passing, Jumping, Speed, Side Step, Strength, Technique, Crash Ball, Wide Attack, Tight Defence, Wide Defence, Rucking, Mauling, Tactical Kicking...

    Now, taking into account the 8 positions in the scrum

    Tighthead Prop
    Hooker
    Loosehead Prop
    #4 Lock
    #5 Lock
    Openside Flanker
    Blindside Flanker
    Number 8
    (Half Back - for feed & distribution)


    Which skills would each position use in the scrum. Obviously, the most relavent skills are:

    Technique, Strength & Stamina, but does a Tighthead need more technique than a loosehead etc.
     
    HeathDavisSpeed, Apr 18, 2011
    #8

  9. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    Per Eds' registration explanation thread:
    Based on this, I'm effectively going to make the tighthead marginally more important at the scrum (I won't tell you by how much, but selectors will need to consider which of their props is better for set pieces vs. open play)

    Ditto - a much smaller increased weighting for the #4 at scrum time.

    Based on this, blindside flanker will be slightly more important at the scrum than the openside.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
    HeathDavisSpeed, Apr 18, 2011
    #9

  10. Frizzed WC Welker

    Are current registrations going to be relevant with this sim ?
     
    Frizzed, Apr 18, 2011
    #10

  11. Incey BC Jacobs

    Yeah. Seems the rego form is a little to simple for the sim.
     
    Incey, Apr 18, 2011
    #11

  12. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    Yes. I'm using everything in your rego at the moment other than the Special Skill, which will eventually get used.

    Your rego determines which skills get applied to your player.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
    HeathDavisSpeed, Apr 18, 2011
    #12

  13. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    The scrum is now working based on my above criteria. Two teams of an equal ability, the feeding team wins 70%, scrum collapses about 15% and the opposing team wins about 15%. Probably need to tweak that to more like 70/25/5, but looking good so far.
     
    HeathDavisSpeed, Apr 18, 2011
    #13

  14. CCG C Golding

    Yeah was about to say that scrums don't collapse that regularly (unless it's Aviva Premiership rugby...) so looks pretty safe and sound there.

    Also in regards to #7 Flankers - pretty sure they're more important than blindsides in terms of winning the ball defensively? My friend who's in the Bath Academy as a 7 is sent out to be the first to every Ruck and to get over the ball and steal it primarily, instead of anything else? Just my thoughts there. I can see where we're coming from otherwise, McCaw etc. etc. link in with the backs and so have to have excellent handling and stuff, so if that could be beared in mind it would be awesome, obviously not a number one priority though.
     
    CCG, Apr 19, 2011
    #14

  15. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    I will be making the differences between Tighthead/Loosehead and Blindside/Openside reasonably important. Make selections that much more tough as you'll need to assess each Prop/Flanker's rego in order to ensure that you select the right one for their position.

    #4 vs. #5 won't be a huge difference though.
     
    HeathDavisSpeed, Apr 19, 2011
    #15

  16. CCG C Golding

    Fair enough. Obviously so in regards to lock as their difference is relatively small in comparison to the other two positions mentioned. Keep up the good work regardless.
     
    CCG, Apr 19, 2011
    #16

  17. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    Here's a question for you... How important is the #8 at scrum-time in comparison to the flankers? I haven't got the foggiest.
     
    HeathDavisSpeed, Apr 19, 2011
    #17

  18. Eds E Ames

    The #8 is more important, definately.
     
    Eds, Apr 19, 2011
    #18

  19. Doog J McDougal

    Aye, 8 is more valuable at scrums.

    If its not too complicated, would there be a way of singling them out in terms of their dribbling ability? ie. Letting the team go on a drive without the scrummie having to clear...
     
    Doog, Apr 19, 2011
    #19

  20. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    Line Out Throws:

    Standard hooker throwing at about an 80% 'straight throw' rate.
    Hooker who is 1.5 times better is throwing a 92% 'straight throw' rate.

    Post rank wise, we're looking at 100-ish vs. 50-ish. Sound reasonable?

    i.e. the guy ranked around 100th throws illegally 20% of the time, the guy ranked around 50th throws illegally 8% of the time.
     
    HeathDavisSpeed, Apr 19, 2011
    #20
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